Welcome to the Umi social circle, where we taught consumer goods tips to help business owners and marketers grow. We’re Allison and Karin, co-founders of Umi Marketing, and we’re being joined today with Diana Beshara, founder of the bold, inventive, hot sauce brand Cantina Royal. Who also happens to be a member of our consumer goods growth course. Welcome Diana, it’s so good to have you.

Diana Beshara: [1:12]

Hi guys, yes, it’s so great to see you too. We’ve been talking, I joined during COVID and it’s been a weird time and it’s just great to even virtually to be able to see you guys face to face.

Alison Smith: [1:23]

I know, so we’re super excited to talk to you today. Love your hot sauces, your chili oil, so really, let’s dive in. And if you could give our listeners an idea of who you are and how you came to create your brand.

Diana Beshara: [1:41]

Sure, you got it. Well, as most things in life, I feel like I came to this kind of circuitously. I come from a family of small business owners and entrepreneurs and makers. But when I was a kid, I was going to be an actress, I was an art school kid. I went through middle school and high school and college, all doing that. So I was one of the first ones to feel blindsided by suddenly finding myself in the business world. But it actually isn’t so weird, I don’t think now because honestly I grew up in it. Especially with family businesses, it’s like all hands on deck, all the time, I get the ethos of it, I had examples of it. So I kind of naturally-ish fell into it, but through the back door. So I came to CPG world through hospitality, I actually ran a restaurant and bar for 10 years in Williamsburg, Brooklyn of the same name, Cantina Royal.

That was the brick and mortar space and I came into that world because I happened to be dating the chef. And he was… as you get with small businesses, he quickly became really overwhelmed when some of his partners kind of faded into the background and he was left shouldering this whole situation on his own. And for kind of selfish reasons, because I wanted to see more of him, I started looking at the operations and just kind of seeing places where things could be pretty quickly and easily improved. And then fast forward 10, I guess, 12 years now, we’re no longer together like that, but we are married as a business couple. So we kind of rocked with that for a while, but I always… We had these amazing hot sauces actually in house in the restaurant. So we were making them and have chef Julio, who’s my chef partner in this.

He is just a Dr. Frankenstein of spicy, he’s from Mexico city, grew up with a jalapeno in hand I feel like. Crunching on it in between bites of meals and it was just a natural thing for him. Long story short, everyone was obsessed with the sauces, it always kind of was a pet project in the back of my mind. Like one day, I’m going to get these shelf ready, going to do all that, but it was not just a restaurant and bar, it was an event space. I did a lot of outside catering and liquor licensing work and permitting in NYC. So it just was, later I’ll do that and then finally it was like, you know what, it’s time we really have to do it. When I think what really put me over the edge, I don’t know what happened, we must have gotten written up in a Japanese guidebook or something.

We started getting all of these groups of Japanese people coming and being like, spicy salsas. And I was like, what’s going on? And yeah, it was like, we got to sell these, we got to bottle these and sell these. People were stealing it off the tables, it was like the whole mess, so we’re like, we might as well just get this done and get it going. And then we did, it was definitely a totally different, even though it’s still in food, it’s like a totally different ballgame, totally different business. But thankfully, I mean, it’s been growing enough that it’s our full-time job now. And it’s probably something I’m the most proud of, I’m like, oh, this was a side thing, but I knew it had legs to it and I’m glad that was true.

Karin Samelson: [6:02]

That’s such a testimonial to people coming in and wanting to steal the hot sauce off the table.

Diana Beshara: [6:08]

And so-

Karin Samelson: [6:10]

Do you still not know why this influx of foreigners were coming in?

Diana Beshara: [6:14]

I still don’t know, I mean, I looked it up, tried to, on the internet. I couldn’t really find anything, people just… When I would ask, they’d be like, no, we heard about it. I don’t know if it was one person sending… who knows, I really don’t know, but it made us be like, hold up. This is not just a New York thing, we could… And obviously, it’s awesome and it sounds fancy. Oh, I have a restaurant in New York, but you can just reach such a wider audience in the CPG world that you could never otherwise reach in a brick and mortar. And that’s been something that’s been really exciting for us, especially for Julio, who feels really strongly like a tie to his culture and his place. He’s an immigrant here, he came to this country and is doing this and it’s really nice to be able to support.

We try when we can to work with small sustainable farmers that are practicing prep rotation and things like that. Or the chilies grow in the shade of the coffee plant and it’s all this beautiful biodiverse, the way it should be. And you can taste it, you can taste the difference, peppers have a tier, just wine does, and something about the richness of that soil. And I mean, it just makes for really beautiful, nuanced, lovely sauces. So part of our mission is always to share that bounty from Mexico and the U.S. is starting to get it, in a way bigger way. But there’s always loads more to go and yet we hope that we can be a small part of that shift in consciousness. That things from Mexico are not just cheaper or whatever, that there’s quality, that there is nuance, it’s not just hot. All those things are really important to us.

Karin Samelson: [8:20]

It kind of sounds like the coffee industry and how such slight things like altitude, soil, so many things factor in and you just have no idea, but-

Diana Beshara: [8:30]

Absolutely.

Karin Samelson: [8:31]

I’m wondering what, if anything, was helpful that you took from being successful in the restaurant industry that made starting and growing a CPG brand easier?

Diana Beshara: [8:45]

So, I think that you come across so many different people from all walks of life, especially when you’re not just running a business like that, where you have your front facing and have a lot of public. But then add NYC into the mix and it’s like, people from all walks of life, all cultures, all places, passing through or living their… it really is a hodgepodge, a melting pot, whatever you want to call it. There’s just so many different people and I think that just having to navigate that and talk to a lot of different people and also… Well, one thing I took from it is, when you’re going into a new field or whatever, there’s going to always be things that you don’t know. And you don’t know, well oftentimes you don’t know what you don’t know. So just like I went into that world where it’s not like, I’m not a restaurant expert, I had never even worked in a restaurant.

I was the one actress that had never had a waitressing job ever, I had other gig jobs, but never, ever, ever before that moment, when I stepped in that, had I even worked in a restaurant. And it’s its own business with its own set of rules, its own ecosystem to it. So you have to be like, I don’t know what I don’t know and one thing I was never afraid of, asking questions and never too precious with my answer to them because what did I know? And eventually you do start to know, but I just kind of began everything and I took that definitely into CPG land. Of, I don’t know what I don’t know and I know how to talk to people though, and I will ask them anything and everything that I can. And try to give… On my side, try to give what I can in whatever way to them too, it’s not just a one way street of me asking everything.

Alison Smith: [11:01]

Right, the giving back part, I think is so prevalent. And one of the things that I love the most about the CPG community is people really are giving with their time and their-

Diana Beshara: [11:17]

It’s been amazing and also it’s so cool that I don’t know that many industries where people come from so many different businesses. You don’t have to have any background in food at all to start a CPG. Well, to start anything really, but you really see founders coming from all sorts of different backgrounds, bringing all sorts of different wealths of other knowledge to it, so it’s been really cool, I’ve just loved everyone.

Karin Samelson: [11:48]

Yeah, and all that background just kind of makes it better and better, but love what you said about staying curious and just not being embarrassed to ask the questions that you know need to know. And you mentioned earlier, that you started your building currently, your commercial kitchen space. What led you to that decision? And how has it been so far?

Diana Beshara: [12:13]

It’s been an adventure let’s say, so NYC is what, short on real estate? Or rather real estate is at a premium, let’s say. So we were looking into a lot of different options, it was important for my partner, for chef Julio, to stay in control of in quality control of the sauce. Now we’re producing much larger amounts and a lot of people move that to co packers or whatever when they can, but he really wanted to maintain manufacturing ourselves. So we’ve been exploring, especially because moved.,As I told you, we moved on from our brick and mortar and it’s been just navigating that. So now we’re really psyched, we’re in a new space in Long Island City, gave us awesome rates, the landlords are on our side, which is important. We just found out we’re like neighbors with Levain, the bakery. The building isn’t very much food and beverage orientated as of now, but now we’re the two that are in here, so that’s fun.

Karin Samelson: [13:35]

Fancy.

Diana Beshara: [13:38]

Yeah, so they’re the first floor and we’re the penthouse, I guess.

Karin Samelson: [13:43]

We got a penthouse.

Diana Beshara: [13:45]

Ish, it’s one of the top floors that has this little outcropping, I love it. When you guys come to New York, it’ll be all ready and we’ll do a dinner, we’ve got a fun little space where we can seat 16.

Karin Samelson: [13:57]

Oh, you guys should have [inaudible 00:14:00].

Diana Beshara: [14:03]

Oh, absolutely, well, it’ll come. But those are invite only, without opening.

Karin Samelson: [14:07]

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Well, that is a big win, I mean, having your own space is such a free-

Diana Beshara: [14:15]

I mean, so what it really does, is it positions us to be able to take on some bigger, I mean, it just positions us to scale better. Which is when we made that decision to not co pack, that became our main concern, not growing too fast for our capacity basically. Because the last thing you want to do is say yes to something and then not be able to fulfill it.

Karin Samelson: [14:42]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [14:43]

Or have hiccups in that or whatever, or something that stress you out in one way and then you lose a quality control. So it’s been important for me to be able to set that roadmap based on where we are, and this is a really important next step for that. So I’m super excited, we’re ready to gear up for holiday production, just like the millisecond that everything is ready.

Karin Samelson: [15:13]

That’s exciting, that’s so exciting.

Karin Samelson: [15:20]

Well, another big win and I don’t know what the process was like and I don’t know how helpful this’ll be to other CPG brands. But I’m so curious because I am obsessed with Hot Ones, I could watch that show on repeat.

Diana Beshara: [15:34]

Yeah, so fun.

Karin Samelson: [15:37]

So how did that even start? How did you get your hot sauce on that show?

Diana Beshara: [15:41]

This is not going to be helpful to almost anyone and for that, I’m sorry, I mean that just lucky us, we were in NYC. So it is a Williamsburg, despite it’s a little place on the map in a lot of people’s heads, some people’s hearts, but more people’s heads and it grows really fast. It turns over really fast, but there still is this core when we started there, there was no other businesses on our street. Now our same block, right, at a half block away is the Trader Joe’s in Williamsburg that people had been waiting for years and years. So just, there was no business and now everyone has to go down that street to hit the Trader Joe’s. So, I mean, growth, all those things, gentrification, all those things, but there was a core of community there that made it feel sort a little village.

Especially amongst other business owners and all the old artists that have lived there forever and stayed and saw everything change. So it just so happened to turn out that, there’s a fun hot sauce store down the street from us a couple blocks away, the guy’s super chill, super nice, buddies of ours. We were their Mexican spot that they went to and obviously since they had a hot sauce store, they were obsessed with Julio’s sauces. And they’re like, whenever you get these ready, let us know, obviously you’re in the shop right away. But when they’re ready, ready, let us know, I was like, oh, that’s awesome, thank you so much. And they’re going to comedy shows in the back and it’s their local and little did we know that these guys actually curate the whole lineup for the show. No idea, we had no idea

Karin Samelson: [17:49]

That highlights the importance of being nice, I mean, you should always be nice to everybody, but-

Diana Beshara: [17:54]

You should always be nice to everybody.

Karin Samelson: [17:57]

Just, you never know.

Diana Beshara: [17:58]

But you really don’t know and it was such an interesting conversation when we were finally ready for it because they’re like, you need to let us know if you’re ready, ready. And it was a conversation between us because they’re like, we’ve seen this great smaller companies and you guys are our friends and we want to see you succeed. We would never want to do that to you, we understand what it means, but you guys need to understand what it really means. And that was a little situation of saying yes and then making it happen, but it was definitely a conversation and so I’m so proud of us for doing that. And we found out later that we were the only… there’s 10 sauces every lineup, we were the only people to deliver before the delivery date that they told us was, you cannot deliver past this date.

And obviously, they built in some wiggle room, but we took it as sacrosanct and no matter what, no matter if I had to put caps on bottles all night long. Or whatever you have to do in that first CPG owners will understand, that first big run where it’s all hands on deck, I was going to make that happen. Thankfully, I don’t have to do that anymore, but yeah, we made it happen and it was a really lovely, it felt really community. And it’s a partnership that’s still flourishing to this day, so that’s how we got on it. Not so helpful to anyone, but I do know that they take submissions and I do know that they are always interested in new, interesting, exciting. They just don’t want things that taste like everything else.

Karin Samelson: [20:04]

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, this could be helpful to other brands because it kind of reminds me of when a brand gets into a Walmart or a Target and they have to prepare for this huge influx of responsibilities that they might not have been prepared for. And that’s kind of the same thing, they were like, you need, are you ready to sell your hot sauce? And I mean, that’s something that you guys have to always think about because I’m glad you said yes and it worked out, but sometimes you do have to say no, if you’re not prepared. So I think that-

Diana Beshara: [20:39]

Absolutely.

Alison Smith: [20:41]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [20:42]

And then trusting that if… Well, a journey for me has been trusting that if someone was interested. If you can’t say yes right at that moment, it doesn’t mean that that just goes away, that means that you’re doing something right, that your products where it should be. I’m a big believer that if the product is great, do you do your best to get yourself out there and do all those things? But if your product is not good, it’s never going to happen, if it’s great, you got a chance and go with it. But trust that product, no matter if you said yes, I think it’s better to say no for right now than say yes and fail. Because product being great is only one half of it that’ll help with sales later on, but if you kill that relationship, that you’ll never get back, I think.

Alison Smith: [21:38]

Right, yeah and a lot of times the big retailers won’t say, are you sure you’re? They’re not going to mold you through it.

Diana Beshara: [21:43]

Oh no, no, no, no, you shouldn’t even-

Alison Smith: [21:48]

It’s really thinking about the end user, are you upholding how you’re coming across to consumers? And everything like that, so I’m glad you pointed that out. I also think it would be really interesting if you shared more about how you decided to make the jump from doing Cantina Royal part-time to going all in. What were some of the deciding factors that were like, okay, it’s the time?

Diana Beshara: [22:16]

I mean… Well, COVID kind of, so all of this, it’s been the time of the great pivot or whatever, where everyone’s been shifting and reassessing and things like that. And ours just kind of happened organically before we were really conscious that we were making that decision, if that makes any sense? So we had this brick and mortar, we were running it, we had started doing everything, all the back stuff to get the sauces ready. And then we found out that we were slated to be on Hot Ones in late 2019 for the… Whatever that next season was, which was going to premiere mid February 2020. We’re like, oh, this is so awesome, we’re going to be a live brick and mortar restaurant when this is playing hundreds of millions of people. We’re going to have so many people coming through the restaurant… Two weeks later, COVID and full restaurant shut down in NYC two weeks after that.

So it didn’t go as we imagined it, let’s say, but whatever does, but while one thing was seeming very uncertain and all of that stuff, the other thing was doing really great. So it just seemed like a natural place to focus more energy on and then I think you can plan and plan and plan and I think it’s great to really type A. So I’m all about the plans, but at some point you just have to, if the universe is pushing you one way, you just got to be able to roll with it. And we were at the natural conclusion of a 10 year lease at our brick and mortar and just had some very reticent landlords, we’re ready to sign on for another 15. It’s all going to be great, oh, now it’s COVID so we’ll negotiate a really great lease price, life is going to be amazing.

We were ready to redo a lease, actively negotiating two, and then it was more and more. Our landlords wanted to give us a two year lease so that they could hike it up god knows how much, as soon as possible. And we were just like, why are we struggling? Why are we giving ourselves heartaches and headaches and all of this stuff to put their children through college? We don’t need to do that, we can do this and it was such a freeing, incredible decision that I’m so happy that we did it. But it was definitely still a leap of faith because you went from a very regular income to now it’s just all on me basically, whatever I can sell. So there’s a different kind of pressure, so that’s why we did this. But yeah, I don’t know, hospitality is kind of in our blood a little bit and there’s some things down the future that we’re excited about that we’re actively planning towards. There will be a flagship location, but right now-

Alison Smith: [25:59]

Exciting.

Diana Beshara: [26:00]

-focusing on this, then-

Alison Smith: [26:02]

One thing at a time, right?

Diana Beshara: [26:03]

One thing at a time, but yeah.

Alison Smith: [26:05]

That is interesting, I thought you were going to have some hard data numbers at this point, it’s time to jump in. But most decisions don’t happen that way unless you’re maybe an engineer, I don’t know. So it is cool to see that it just happened organically and you go with the feel sometimes and you just make it work.

Diana Beshara: [26:29]

Yeah… But no, I feel for anybody that’s going through that right now. It’s a tough decision to make, I think it’s also a really personal decision. It worked out for us, but I don’t think there’s any… there’s no shame in doing it any way you can. This is a business that accepts everyone and we all have our own metrics.

Karin Samelson: [26:56]

And I think it’s the importance of going with your gut, it’s like, do I want to sign this two year lease? Where I know that it’s not going to be in my best interest? Or do I want to pursue a dream? So I think that’s something that a lot of people can resonate with, for sure.

Diana Beshara: [27:10]

And then once that other thing is cut off, you kind of are like, well, now you have to push forward with the thing you have. And maybe it gets you somewhere faster than you might have been able to do it with a more limited bandwidth. So-

Karin Samelson: [27:24]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [27:25]

Yeah, there’s trade offs to cutting the security net, kind of.

Karin Samelson: [27:30]

Yeah, trade offs for everything, every decision.

Diana Beshara: [27:34]

Yeah.

Karin Samelson: [27:38]

Well, it’s super exciting to see the growth that you’ve had and how you got started, how you’re here now fully in CPG. But we also mentioned that you are a member of our growth course, which we’re so happy to have you part of our community. So we’d love to ask you how the course has so far helped you on this journey of marketing your CPG brand?

Diana Beshara: [28:00]

Well, as I’ve told you guys, I came to this not knowing anything and there’s so many parts of this business and it’s so hard. It’s nearly impossible for one person to be great at all of the parts and things. I loved that course, I knew it was something we needed to, we had some great source material that we needed to activate. And it was just such… The thought of having to become an expert at something else while doing everything else was just soul crushing to me at the time. I could not get even the motivation to do it, yet I knew it needed to be and it just was one of those things that was just on the list. Forever on the list and never could get motivated to get to it and joining the course just made it really much more actionable for us.

Alison Smith: [29:09]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [29:09]

I found that it’s not my favorite thing and I outsourced it a bit, but-

Alison Smith: [29:15]

That’s great.

Diana Beshara: [29:16]

-it’s still in house, still in my house.

Alison Smith: [29:17]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [29:19]

My dear boyfriend is now director of sales and marketing and he is a data nerd, so he fricking loves it. It was just learning the KPIs and the metrics and he is constituently trying to explain it to me. And I’m like, you know what? You get it, so go with it, I’ll stick with the creatives.

Alison Smith: [29:42]

No, that’s so great, I mean, understanding how it works is very important. But understanding where your skills lie and where seeing your partner, where his skills lie and just making sure that everyone’s working to their optimal… what brains are good at basically.

Diana Beshara: [30:06]

Mm-hmm.

Alison Smith: [30:07]

So I think that’s really smart. So is your partner doing the marketing right now for you guys?

Diana Beshara: [30:15]

Yeah, kind of.

Alison Smith: [30:17]

Cool.

Diana Beshara: [30:28]

When you’re to small business, I’m still definitely have a pretty big hand in it, but he deals with all the paid advertising and optimizing and all of that stuff. And building, he built a really great funnel, you guys know it’s been a disaster zone with the iOS changes. And when we started, it was like, oh wow, this is… Because we had some great source material, obviously from Hot Ones and stuff. We’re like, this is awesome, this is easy and then it immediately hit and we’re like, oh no, we are spending way too much money for who knows what we’re getting. But he to took that time and used the course and built this really strong funnel that even though I think we cut our budget in a full half with no decrease in sale. And barely a decrease in traffic, hitting the site, it’s a nice, healthy funnel.

Karin Samelson: [31:29]

That’s super exciting to hear.

Diana Beshara: [31:32]

Yeah, which is something and we use that data for other… We use it for hitting up brick and mortars too. We’re like, we get this kind of consistent traffic on our site, these people are spending a premium to get it shipped to them. We want to make it easier for them to get it from you for cheaper, it’s a no brainer. Look at all… We can show that data, so

Karin Samelson: [31:55]

Yeah, that’s such a good point that we drive home when we do retailer specific ads for our clients. It’s like, you’re definitely sharing that with the buyer, you are definitely giving them all of the information of the things that you’re doing to push your brand and get it off the shelf.

Diana Beshara: [32:11]

Yeah, absolutely.

Diana Beshara: [32:14]

And you sound so… I feel groceries a completely outdated industry for the most part. I mean, other than pop up groceries or whatever of the world, most groceries, especially conventional grocery is just… They can’t even go online to order something. Some people just text me, which is a nightmare or send an email, even though it’s like, you could just go on the portal, but you have to meet them where they are. But if you can show them, look at this, they’re so impressed and you just seem to know what you’re talking about more I think. And all of that stuff is really good when you’re trying to convince them to give you precious shelf space.

Karin Samelson: [33:04]

Heck yes, we love that you’re doing specific, you’re looking into geo targeted ads to be able to push retail traffic, push foot traffic. And also to appeal to the grocers, I think that’s very smart and something that we definitely encourage brands to do.

Diana Beshara: [33:23]

Yes, thank you for the language to do it.

Karin Samelson: [33:28]

Of course, we were happy to support, awesome. Well, Diana, it’s been so nice chatting with you and learning more about the brand, more than we knew. Even though we’ve had the opportunity to try it and love it.

Diana Beshara: [33:41]

Thank you.

Karin Samelson: [33:42]

But is there anything, any final statement that you want to give to our listeners?

Diana Beshara: [33:48]

If you are interested in trying hot sauce near you, please reach out, let me know fun retailers with great adventurous food sections. We’re in that phase of, we’re getting ready to grow big and we want to know where people would want to find us. And if anyone has any questions, feel free to reach out to me, I’m so happy to help out. I’m the community lead in NYC for startup CPG, which is a great CPG community. Yeah. I’m just happy to help where I can.

Karin Samelson: [34:27]

Awesome.

Alison Smith: [34:32]

I have to add in real quick and if your consumer looking for really amazing hot sauce or my favorite, personal favorite is the garlic chili oil. What is it?

Diana Beshara: [34:45]

So it’s beautiful, toasted edible chili peppers, which is a red dried chili pepper from Mexico. Nice heat, really great earthy flavor. Yeah, I was telling you guys earlier, it’s definitely hot chili oil summer.

Alison Smith: [34:59]

That’s right.

Diana Beshara: [35:01]

It’s been coming for a while, but I feel like we’re really there before… For the U.S. consumer in general, hot sauce in a jar was not something that anybody had any idea about. And now with people with Fly By Jing and Chili Crisp and it’s time to upgrade from Trader Joe’s, okay. There’s a big, hot chili oil world out there and we’re so happy to be a part of it.

Alison Smith: [35:33]

I’m all in.

Diana Beshara: [35:34]

Yeah.

Alison Smith: [35:35]

It’s so good.

Diana Beshara: [35:36]

Sold out right now on the website, but definitely check back in one week.

Alison Smith: [35:39]

Yes, that’s what I was going to say.

Diana Beshara: [35:41]

Check back in one week, we’ll be restocked, we cannot keep it in stock.

Alison Smith: [35:45]

Yeah.

Diana Beshara: [35:48]

It is just going, it’s got this nice big garlicy flavor, that big bump of garlic, a little more than your average Chili Crisp and it’s just great on everything.

Karin Samelson: [35:56]

Yum, well, Diana, thank you so much again and we hope to talk to you again soon.

Diana Beshara: [36:05]

Absolutely, thanks so much guys, this was fun.

Through my social circle is a CPG agency driven podcast based out of Austin, Texas. We’re excited to share more behind the scene insights, chats with industry leaders and whatever else we learn along the way. Follow us on Instagram @umimarketing or check out our website, umimarketing.com, catch you back here soon.